Co-Op Casual Friday: The Forbidden Fruit
Editorial
Is Dad killing zombies or minotaurs in there? Sounds fun.
If you have children, and are a gamer, you have probably run into some awkward situations. There are some games that are perfectly acceptable for adults, and yet wildly inappropriate for children. Some parents may disagree, and buy Grand Theft Auto for their first grader, but for most of us, there's a line between what's a "me" game, and what's a "kid" game. This line varies from gamer family to gamer family, of course, and by child, as well. For my youngest, who is eight, we have a higher tolerance of sci-fi violence (such as that in Halo's campaigns) than we do human on human violence (Call of Duty comes to mind). Excessive realistic gore is a no-no (Left 4 Dead), but heavily stylized cartoon blood (Castle Crashers) is acceptable. For our older son, fifteen, all the above games are probably OK, but I'd draw the line at games with strong sexual content or excessive language. The point is, there are going to be some games on the shelf that your kids are not allowed to play.
Alas, the forbidden fruit is often the most enticing. The very fact that a game is off limits just makes it more appealing to kids. I find my son staring at game cases for Left 4 Dead, God of War, and other "daddy" games in a manner that can be likened to that of Indiana Jones and the golden idol. I wonder, what thoughts are going through his head? Does he wonder what gore is? Violence? Sexual themes? I certainly hope not. Perhaps he daydreams of skeletal archers and Boomer bile? Who knows.
Let me tell you, my son is a good kid. He never gets in trouble at school, always does his chores on time, and is, generally speaking, a darling little angel. It's difficult to believe he could do anything sneaky, or devious, at all. But as he grows older, he has been resorting to acts of stealth and trickery to get a glimpse of these games. And so, we have begun a game of cat and mouse, each countering the other's moves. I fight for his continued innocence, he fights for blood, gore, and intense violence. Thus far, I'm ashamed to admit, he is winning. He has developed some tactics in this war that I've found difficult to counter.
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Reader Comments 
pheriannath at 07:30 PM on 10.30.2009
Awesome, awesome article, Marc. I often wonder how my incoming child will react to games.
bapenguin at 07:39 PM on 10.30.2009
Great read! Love the pics!
txshurricane at 07:43 PM on 10.30.2009
Marc, you are raising the bar as a writer AND a parent. Bravo!
blakepro at 08:17 PM on 10.30.2009
Very good read. I share quite a few of your same sentiments. My boy will be born in just a few days and I know this will be a inner conflict with me as well.
slhunter at 08:25 PM on 10.30.2009
I've got a 3 year-old and definitely watch what she sees me playing. Unfortunately, it means that a lot of these types of games can't be played until after she's gone to bed because otherwise, she's checking in every 5 minutes on what I'm doing. I don't see any reason why I'll hold her away from stuff like this until she's 18, but I do know that when I think the "time is right" for her to experience these types of things, that we'll have a talk about it and how to behave/react after seeing/playing it.
smurphster at 08:39 PM on 10.30.2009
excellent article. that's one subject we've been worrying about lately since our 3 year old is starting to ask a lot of questions.
ShadokatRegn at 10:03 PM on 10.30.2009
This was a wonderful read! I don't think I can add anything further, so well done!
roland at 11:50 PM on 10.30.2009
"I must admit a tiny voice in the back of my head tells me I should be proud of my son's ingenuity and resourcefulness."
I struggle with this idea on a regular basis. I've got a long history of being a rule breaker and pushing boundaries, and I don't necessarily want to raise a kid who is just going to follow the rules because they are rules. But we want her to obey our rules for all the reasons that parents do. Walking the line between trying to teach her how and why to challenge authority while maintaining our own is hard to do.
I struggle with this idea on a regular basis. I've got a long history of being a rule breaker and pushing boundaries, and I don't necessarily want to raise a kid who is just going to follow the rules because they are rules. But we want her to obey our rules for all the reasons that parents do. Walking the line between trying to teach her how and why to challenge authority while maintaining our own is hard to do.
Slivers at 12:23 PM on 10.31.2009
Hah! Wonderful, and insightful article. Personally, I have very little tolerance for on-purpose, known family rule breaking. The question I have though, does he "know" it was against the rules to behave the way he did or, by sending him out of the room to not watch directly, did you assume the rule was set?
Telling him that "ANY" type of watching/viewing/listening in your "Dad" games is crossing the line (if it is) and what the consequences (if any) are. In that same conversation, understanding "why" he wants to watch is important. Who knows, you may be surprised to find it has nothing to do with the gore-violence-blood-language but everything with the "pace" and "excitement" those games present combined with "Daddy time". Teen and Mature games inherently have a faster, more stimulating involvement to them that many find feeds their mental "need-for-speed" brain hunger.
If he WANTS to sit and Veg w/ Dad and take it all in for the excitement levels and your "go play elsewhere" was simply denying him that ... well, then, the rule of "not watching" is a bad rule to begin with and should've been broken in the first place =)
There's a happy, healthy medium out there somewhere. When you find it, let me know so I can steal it
Telling him that "ANY" type of watching/viewing/listening in your "Dad" games is crossing the line (if it is) and what the consequences (if any) are. In that same conversation, understanding "why" he wants to watch is important. Who knows, you may be surprised to find it has nothing to do with the gore-violence-blood-language but everything with the "pace" and "excitement" those games present combined with "Daddy time". Teen and Mature games inherently have a faster, more stimulating involvement to them that many find feeds their mental "need-for-speed" brain hunger.
If he WANTS to sit and Veg w/ Dad and take it all in for the excitement levels and your "go play elsewhere" was simply denying him that ... well, then, the rule of "not watching" is a bad rule to begin with and should've been broken in the first place =)
There's a happy, healthy medium out there somewhere. When you find it, let me know so I can steal it
smurphster at 12:40 PM on 10.31.2009
you're absolutely right, it probably has nothing to do with him wanting to experience gore, violence etc., but that doesn't mean its ok for him to experience it. young kids can be very impressionable at that age and i certainly don't want my kids hearing the f-bomb and seeing blood squirting everywhere when they're 8 years old. satisfying their need for fast paced action should come from other sources, not M rated video games. that sounds like pretty reasonable grounds for a rule right?
Udderman at 01:34 PM on 10.31.2009
dude that diagram was classic lmao
justabaldguy at 01:37 PM on 10.31.2009
A lot of that is why I never game until my kids are down for the night. My gaming time is limited to 815PM or so on, until I pass out. Not ideal, but they've never seen anything I don't want them to.
Slivers at 03:00 PM on 10.31.2009
smurphster ...
I agree completely on the "impression" side of things. To me, the happy medium is either finding a game with the stimuli but without the content (by design (Lego Star Wars) or by filtering (Gods of War 2)) or as someone else stated, playing adult games when the children are sleeping.
Alas, I think Marc's kids have a later bed-time than he does
Personally, I'm not a fan of language or blood, so even as an adult I turn them off for just me unless they are truly part of the character as in Uncharted 2.
I agree completely on the "impression" side of things. To me, the happy medium is either finding a game with the stimuli but without the content (by design (Lego Star Wars) or by filtering (Gods of War 2)) or as someone else stated, playing adult games when the children are sleeping.
Alas, I think Marc's kids have a later bed-time than he does
Personally, I'm not a fan of language or blood, so even as an adult I turn them off for just me unless they are truly part of the character as in Uncharted 2.
Marcling at 04:28 PM on 10.31.2009
I think children should be allowed to see some adult games, but under certain restrictions. I think for the most part children 13 and over should be able to play most games, excluding ones with sexual content. But young children should be more restricted. I have no problem with letting my kids watch me play half life or halo due to low amount of swearing and not much gore, but I would never let them watch me play god of war and games of the such due to extreme gore and high sexual content. I normally let my kids watch me play GTA when i'm just playing around but when i'm going through story i don't let them watch as things (such as sex) occur. I would also give my kid a talk about how video games do not portray how you should behave in real life and should not do things such as shoot cops.
kevinclough at 09:16 PM on 10.31.2009
I save my game playing until the kids are in bed, but my 5 year old son likes to sneak peeks at my gaming magazines. He makes a funny laugh after he has snuck a peak at the forbidden fruit.
Tino at 12:43 AM on 11.2.2009
This was an absolutely fantastic read.
Well done!
Well done!
daribus at 02:19 PM on 11.2.2009
Great read, I am lucky I still have another year or two before I have to worry about such things
Willtur at 04:24 PM on 11.2.2009
good read, i personally dont filter anything (music,movies,games) and my kid wants nothing to do with violent games. Im working on a theory that depriving or masking anything leads to norman bates.
I remember this couple that brought their 8 yr old daughter to see fight club, everytime they had a sex scene or penis shot they sent her out. Even without the sex scenes im pretty sure she wouldnt be able to grasp the movie but having them lazily edit that one thing seemed almost perverse in a way.
I had a hard time lying to my kid about santa when she was young cause how could i tell her monsters didnt exist but unicorns did? I remember as a youth being scared as hell because the story of the devil being told during sunday school. In the end I quit the whole lying and slowly allowed her to watch movies I deemed thought provoking as a fan of the cinema but after a while I felt like an idiot for wanting to hide pieces of it. I think as Americans we get it all wrong, we hide sex and applaud violence. Denmark does the opposite and they seem to be a lot less violent as a whole. I think we should be able to handle both.
I see cases like Columbine and Beavis and Butthead where the parents blame the media. Like if their kid wasnt already so disconnected from reality the same thing wouldn't have happened. If you have a smart kid they wont smack anyone with a hammer. You guys sound like caring parents, do you really think they would turn out any different if you let them play GTA?
I take my kid to concerts they cuss, I cuss, the music I listen to has profanity. I also drink and smoke cigarettes while I am drinking. None of these are things I want my kid to do but to think they wont see it or hear it when they go to school (unless youre crazy enough to home school). She already knows my place on all of it. I know it's not the norm but I was raised the opposite way and I wasn't prepared for anything. I figured the left wasn't far enough from it. To me I feel if you try to live youre way whatever that is, as long as you are being true to that way and try to not contradict your own values you cant go wrong. Stick by with whatever you feel is the right way.
I remember this couple that brought their 8 yr old daughter to see fight club, everytime they had a sex scene or penis shot they sent her out. Even without the sex scenes im pretty sure she wouldnt be able to grasp the movie but having them lazily edit that one thing seemed almost perverse in a way.
I had a hard time lying to my kid about santa when she was young cause how could i tell her monsters didnt exist but unicorns did? I remember as a youth being scared as hell because the story of the devil being told during sunday school. In the end I quit the whole lying and slowly allowed her to watch movies I deemed thought provoking as a fan of the cinema but after a while I felt like an idiot for wanting to hide pieces of it. I think as Americans we get it all wrong, we hide sex and applaud violence. Denmark does the opposite and they seem to be a lot less violent as a whole. I think we should be able to handle both.
I see cases like Columbine and Beavis and Butthead where the parents blame the media. Like if their kid wasnt already so disconnected from reality the same thing wouldn't have happened. If you have a smart kid they wont smack anyone with a hammer. You guys sound like caring parents, do you really think they would turn out any different if you let them play GTA?
I take my kid to concerts they cuss, I cuss, the music I listen to has profanity. I also drink and smoke cigarettes while I am drinking. None of these are things I want my kid to do but to think they wont see it or hear it when they go to school (unless youre crazy enough to home school). She already knows my place on all of it. I know it's not the norm but I was raised the opposite way and I wasn't prepared for anything. I figured the left wasn't far enough from it. To me I feel if you try to live youre way whatever that is, as long as you are being true to that way and try to not contradict your own values you cant go wrong. Stick by with whatever you feel is the right way.
txshurricane at 05:38 PM on 11.2.2009
You know, I was "deprived" of concerts, profanity, and second-hand smoke, and I'm no Norman Bates.
Willtur at 12:42 PM on 11.3.2009
Hehe, that was actually a joke. If you think about it though what does every good horror movie killer start with? An overbearing parent with some odd suppression for something. On the other note, No one smokes around anyone these days, but when I say smoke I mean in the same sense as someone who enjoys a cigar with a glass of brandy outside in the courtyard.
I don't think being around any of it would have changed you one way or another as you actually had someone around who cared. I'm just saying the kid with a learning disability may think cartoons are real or they ARE in the matrix but to think your kid will pull a Dexter after some zombie killing is a tad far-fetched. Some other kid may but not the one someone gives a damn to care about and show them right and wrong. It's up to you the parent where you want to set the bar whenever you feel it's right and your kid is able to handle it by all means pull the trigger. A family that kills zombies together stays together.
I don't think being around any of it would have changed you one way or another as you actually had someone around who cared. I'm just saying the kid with a learning disability may think cartoons are real or they ARE in the matrix but to think your kid will pull a Dexter after some zombie killing is a tad far-fetched. Some other kid may but not the one someone gives a damn to care about and show them right and wrong. It's up to you the parent where you want to set the bar whenever you feel it's right and your kid is able to handle it by all means pull the trigger. A family that kills zombies together stays together.
Mrxknown_JG at 02:22 PM on 11.3.2009
@Willtur, people do smoke in front of others and I've ahd a "friend" blow their smoke in my face already knowing I don't smoke.
Great read! I love it! Read it while listening to the Co-opticast.
Great read! I love it! Read it while listening to the Co-opticast.
hedgehogaj at 02:50 PM on 11.3.2009
Dude...your son is going to grow up to be a ninja. Sweet!
Having a wife that's a teacher though, I'm more worried about what my kids will pick up elsewhere.
Having a wife that's a teacher though, I'm more worried about what my kids will pick up elsewhere.
Willtur at 03:21 PM on 11.3.2009
friend in quotes is right, I remember when people smoke in cars,work, and their homes. Hard to believe it's still out there. I smoke outside in a huge open courtyard and don't bother anyone with it. I have a friend who smokes e-cigs which look cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U81x8t2iMhw but I think he is trying to quit smoking. I don't smoke enough to warrant it and really have no desire to quit as much as my desire to casually enjoy a drink isn't going anywhere, everything in moderation is the motto for me but yeah your friend is a douche.
unowho999 at 09:23 AM on 11.4.2009
Hey Marc, great article, you really got me to think about the way I game in front of others. While I don't have a son (I'm only 15...), I do have an 8 year old sister who looks up to me, and so like you wrote, its been annoying me lately that not more games have the same sort of family friendly settings like Gears 2. I managed to find another way to get around the problem though. I managed to get my hands on some headphones with an extended cord so I can play more mature titles without having to worry about my younger sibling overhearing any undesirable language or violent noises. Why not give it a try? It works like a charm.
smurphster at 10:30 AM on 11.4.2009
turtle beach makes some excellent headsets that are compatible with voice chat. of course everyone here should know that since nick did a superb review on a few of them during pax. i have a pair of X1's and love them.
the impact on siblings never occurred to me until now. had these rated M games been out when i was ~8, my brother would have been playing them in front of me. instead he was playing very simple games on our commodore 64 which my parents had no problems with. how times have changed... i don't mean to challenge your parents' parenting skills/ideals, but do they limit your choice of games while your sister is around? that would seem a bit unfair to you, i'm sure, but that sort of thing is what comes with age
roland at 02:28 PM on 11.4.2009
I don't think that times have changed, just the medium. My brother was six years older than me, and his music, movie and reading selections greatly impacted me (both good and bad). Particularly with music and movies, I know I watched and listened to stuff with him that I wouldn't have let my kid watch/listen to at that age.
smurphster at 02:36 PM on 11.4.2009
haha... you have a point there. i remember watching caddyshack, showgirls, and starship troopers when i was much too young.
unowho999 at 06:50 PM on 11.5.2009
Well smurphster, my parents are fairly lenient in what they allow me to play, so long as I don't play in front of my sister. I never allow her to watch my games, unless its something like the Lego series which we both enjoy, so I'm usually more worried about the gunshots etc. she can hear from outside, hence the headset. But yeah, I understand what you mean, but I'm pretty sure that if I had a younger brother who wasn't 7 years younger than I, I would be less worried. (Not that I'm sexist or anything... Just that girls and boys tend to have different interests at that age.)
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