I feel the need to point out that "extra money" is never spent on pre-order exclusives. Every penny advanced to a retailer is taken from the final cost of the game when you pick it up. If you choose not to pick up your copy of the game, your advance money is fully refundable up to 90 days after you paid it, according to most retailers' refund policy.

If money were the issue, then Collector's Editions should be under fire, not pre-orders.

Everyone with $60 has the same opportunity to reserve a game and get the bonus content. The only sacrifice I see with bonus content is that patches -- like the required Juggernaut update -- take up valuable HDD space.

There's also the matter of people who wait to pick up the game used, but that's a whole different discussion...

--- Replying to txshurricane -----

Just as a general observation; I never said it costs extra to get pre-ordered content; it simply costs more to buy a game right out of the starting gate. Even if you buy a new in-the-original-shrink-wrap game 6 months after release there is a good chance the price has dropped significantly without feeding to the used-games giants - however, you've lost any chance of playing the exclusive content available at pre-order.

You forgot the Borderlands Mercenary Gun Pack from gamestop

Also, Blockbuster did/does something similar. For both Madden 2010 & CoDMW2, when you put $5 down, you'll get a $5 gift card when the game is release.

If you pay off the preorder on the first payment, you'll get a $5 gift card that day.

I think for me it comes down to the value of it. Juggernaut, as an example, in MUA:2? I absolutely wanted him, because he's the only X-Men character that's ever appealed to me. Something like flames on a Warthog? I could care less.

If it's offered later on, I don't see a problem with it -- the "gotta have it!"s will pre-order to get it, while others can wait for it to come out. But when no one says anything about the content and what will happen to it later. . . That's good marketing strategy, sure, but it's also something I hate.

I don't feel cheated, though, no -- no exclusive baseball bat for me in Left 4 Dead 2? I don't mind. Now, if the "new game mode" they're announcing was restricted. . . Or to put it in a realistic example, Juggernaut will never come as DLC? I'd feel cheated. When developers purposely cut out something or block something to pre-orders only, and it's actually something relating to gameplay itself, it sucks.

Problem is: It works. If Juggernaut was stated as "DLC for December!" or something, people would have waited. Once they heard the game was only X amount of hours, or had Y amount of bugs, sales might not have been as strong. Pre-orders basically trick people into giving the full price.

I guess what I'm trying to say here in this ramble is that it's sort of bad. When it's purely visible, like flames on a Warthog, it's a nice gesture, as it's like a developer saying, "Thanks for pre-ordering and having faith in our product." But when it's something that could actually impact how you can play the game, it feels more like a "Thanks for pre-ordering; the rest of you can be jealous now."

(As for the Borderlands gun pack, I would count that as a visual thing. As far as I've heard from others, the guns are easily replaceable. They're just a bit stronger than what you start with. And considering the amount of guns in the game. . . Getting "exclusive guns" is a very small detail.)

--- Replying to ShadokatRegn -----
I'm with you. That last paragraph was a little misleading, so thanks for clarifying.


If we look at retail as a whole, video games become a can of worms. From the retailer's standpoint: most overstocked products can be returned to the distributor for credit. Not video games (at least, that's how it was five years ago). So GameStop devised the "reserve" sale to minimize overstock. Suddenly, distributors aren't moving enough units, so the publishers aren't making as much money, and the developer budgets are shrinking.

How do the publishers battle this? By getting behind the pre-order sales system...they can offer in-game content, and now they are not only promoting pre-orders, they are minimizing distributor costs and discouraging used game sales. Game incentives can come in several forms, and probably the most cost effective for publishers is in-game content that can be reproduced at almost no cost. It's a no-brainer for publishers.

Who's to blame? Hard to say. My personal opinion is that the used game AND pre-order fiascoes would diminish significantly if there were a better satisfaction guarantee for consumers and a solid return-credit system for retailers.

For the time being, in-game pre-order bonuses don't bother me all that much. There are system-exclusive games/content and region-specific games/content...being a video game consumer means we have to learn to go without sometimes. Unless there's an issue where gamers absolutely can't play with each other -- like the first Army of Two's region locking or the Juggernaut crap that just happened -- I don't personally have an issue with bonus content. But that's just me.

I disagree about the Borderlands gun pack as visual. Because even if you put it in that category it is weapons that may give your buddy an advantage in a PvP slap fight.

Besides, with weapon proficiencies, the more you use a type of weapon the more skilled you are with it. the damage goes up and other stats are affected. True, you may find a higher level weapon that is "better" that with anything. It is subjective.

I'm the kinda person that if I use weapon A so many types, that's MY weapon. I love, cherish it and will keep it for the memories.

Besides, I'm just interested in what this 8-weapon gun pack really is.

The problem with where the developers seem to be going is that you're paying full price either way, but if you don't pre-order, you don't get the full game.

Yeah, it's a bit unsettling to think that just because someone pre-ordered the same game as you through a retailer you hate to do business with (Gamestop, in my case), they will get something as cool as the Juggernaut for UA2. All the same, if the developers REALLY want to make some great opening sales, wouldn't it be cool to offer a different preorder bonus to each major retailer? No? Forget I mentioned it; that was a bad idea.

Between exclusive content based on when you order and who you order from and exclusive content based on what console you play (with regards to content that has no reason not to be included on other platforms, not due to space or capability differences), this is what's wrong with the current generation of games. I didn't mind too much when it was just visual changes or some useless item (like a vanity pet in WoW), but when this starts changing the game, it's just ridiculous. Let me put it this way if companies aim to make money on games buy enticing customers to buy them, how can the customer ultimately be the reason for the exclusivity? It sounds like money is changing hands somewhere else in the chain and at the detriment to the customers.

I'm not a big fan of the exclusive content, although I can see the business sensibility behind it. If you don't offer gamers something extra to purchase new at release, you may end up buying it used (like I usually do) and then almost none of your sale goes to the developer/publisher. I can only think of one preorder bonus that I really wanted, the M1 Carbine in Call of Duty World @ War. Beyond that, the rest of it seems pretty trivial. *Fires Gold Hammerburst into the air*

The most absurd exclusive I heard of.

What if I like playing as stealth & action, I have to preorder the game from two different stores?

Can you imagine if car dealers started saying - "If you preorder the new Ford Fusion you get power steering free!"

Sounds great. Awesome. Except...nobody else can get power steering on the car afterwards, not because the car can't do it, but because you didn't pony up and pay the price to get it before everyone else.

The retailer "excuse" is a poor one, it's the same line of BS they gave me when I worked at EB Games. If you can't properly calculate supply and demand of product, you shouldn't be in the business of retail. It's the lazy way out.

--- Replying to bapenguin -----

First off, you can never accurately calculate supply and demand of a product. Never. I wonder how many employees got fire when Halo: Combat Evolved became a big hit and no one saw that coming. Sheesh.

Off-topic, but similar: Ea has this habit of having you register on their website with your gamertag so you can get other content. Which is just another way of them to collect data on you.

People really hated Battlefield Bad Company's preorder bonuses. Especially initially when Ea said after release they would have them available for purchase online.

Preorders and other stuff like this are just the beginning. As this type of infrastructure matures I hope retailers, publishers, and developers realize how to leverage these opportunities to the best of the customer and then to themselves.

Of course, in a industry that is so very well entangled with technology, it's hard for it to properly mature when new avenues and possibilities keep popping up.

--- Replying to Mrxknown_JG -----

That's bullshit. There will ALWAYS be surprise hits, just like there will always be surprise flops. But every industry has to calculate inventory and supply - regardless if its' retail or not.

--- Replying to bapenguin -----

First sorry if I misinterpret what you called BS. Cause I may not have gotten your point.

So then explain how you can accurately report demand of a product that really could be hit or miss. Yes, preorders are a good way to figure out the demand, and I understand the need to estimate the amount of demand in order to get the right amount of supply.

But the Wii has been out for awhile and that is still hard to find. Everytime we got one, it would be gone the next day. Maybe that was a year ago since not too many people have been asking us for it.

Another example, my store will not be receiving any copies of Operation Flashpoint 2. Now we don't do the orders that apparently is dealt with someone higher than my store manager. But we've had about 4-5 people come in or call about when we were going to get it. That's money lost and that's my point. They may still need to anticipate what the demand may be, but they also cannot do so accurately enough so that they do not miss opportunities.

Why any publisher feels like it would be in their best interest to provide "pre-order incentives" to only one or two retailers is beyond me, and it makes about as much sense as stuffing a PC game full of soon-to-be-broken DRM.

Gears of War 2 released with a FREE Flashback map pack available to EVERYONE who purchased the game new, regardless of the retailer used.

I can understand the reasoning behind providing a little 'something extra' to encourage people to purchase new, but no publisher is helping themselves by limiting consumers to specific retailers. This goes for game-extras as well as limited editions. Assassin's Creed 2 and Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 both have collector's editions available only at GameStop. What's up with this?

If Amazon.com offered every single one of GameStop's "exclusives", I'd definitely go out and buy more of the games associated with them. As it stands now, I might be drawn toward these limited releases once or twice a year, but the majority I buy used from ebay out of spite.

Why can't I buy everything from the retailer of my choice!?!?!?!?

Furthermore, no incentive should be limited to just retailers (even if it's universal between all distributors).

If every "new" copy of Marvel:UA2 came with a code for Juggernaut inside the box, that's still no excuse for it to not be made available on XBL or PSN for those who do eventually purchase used from day one... and at a reasonable pricetag.

It's pre-order incentives like these that make me want to quit gaming entirely. When someone is getting a reduced experience simply for just not pre-ordering really hammers in that realization that these companies just don't care about us. Then we are being strong armed into preordering at certain stores thus the companies see that their pre order percentages increase when something is being offered. Then even further when it's something that gimps your gameplay if you don't have it.

These companies are likely interpreting it as "oh gamers like this."

No, we DON'T like it. Were being FORCED into this.

--- Replying to Mrxknown_JG -----

Except your point is moot because it's proof their system doesn't work. They didn't accurately anticipate demand and now they are short copies to sell. There was too much emphasis on preorders and now they've potentially lost sales to another retailer.

The Wii is a matter of, was a matter of, supply.

I have a problem with pre-order bonuses primarily because I can't afford to pre-order every game I want. I can't possibly afford Borderlands, AC 2, MW 2, L4D 2, Uncharted 2 and Brutal Legend all in the next two months. That's like saying that all I need to get special content is to have $500 to throw away. I don't have that kind of cash. I don't mind bonuses for buying a game new instead of used, though I'd sill like to see the content as DLC at a later date (like the Flashback pack for Gears 2). After all, if you buy something used, chances are you're going to get something with issues, except in the game industry. If I were to buy X-Men Origins right now, I'd pay $40 or less for the same thing that someone who bought it on it's 2nd day of release paid $60 for. But for people who laid down $60 two days before it was released get $5 of extra content for free, that can't be accessed by someone who paid the full price for the game? That's wrong, and unfair. It's catering to people who have the money to throw around. I work two jobs to have a place to live and food to eat. Why shouldn't I get less content for the same price because I couldn't afford it the week before?

It does seem weird that the biggest publishers are offering "buy new" incentives to the retailer most responsible for them deciding to have "buy new" incentives in the first place. Why can't they do more what Rock Band 2 or Saints Row 2 did, including a one time use code for extra content? The former had 20 extra songs (crap ones, but still 20), and the latter had a friggin UFO for you to play around in!

What really gets my goat is when I hear about "exclusive demos". Why would a dev/publisher ever want to limit access to one of the best promotional tools a game can have? It's like saying you have this really amazing commercial, but you'll only air it on one particular channel. That may help drive people who were going to buy the game anyways to a particular retailer, but it does NOT help get more people to buy the game.

--- Replying to Tino -----
No one is forcing you to do anything. It's business.

The solution to this aggravation will never be from complaining to the retailer, the publisher, or fellow gamers. Stop buying from these places. Or at least stop pre-ordering. I completely skipped MUA2, as much as I wanted to play it.

When Bungie announced at PAX that the ODST Sgt Johnson code would be unavailable after launch, I made a decision on the spot whether to make sure I got my pre-order in with Amazon, or just skip the whole fiasco and pick up a copy on release day. I'm thankful that I made the decision that I did, because not only do I NOT miss Sgt Johnson in Firefight, I got a great release-day incentive at Toys R Us that wasn't announced until just a few days before release. Kat did the same.


I don't think that exclusive content is bad for gaming, as long as we can be adults about it. The next generation is being bred to play video games, and they are quickly becoming the primary consumers; retailers know this. The trouble is: as adults who also play games, a lot of us have our idea of what gaming industry ethics should be, and we see these pre-order shenanigans as some type of extortion. Here we kick and scream, but for every game copy I buy used, GameStop has already sold fifteen launch-day copies to middle-schoolers with weekly allowance money and airhead parents.

My personal solution to avoid all this is to stop focusing on what could be and look at what is...before the pre-order bonuses, before the developer promises (Left 4 Dead), before the game-changing updates (Star Wars Galaxies)... I ask myself: do I think that this game, the way that it is -- without DLC or ongoing server support -- will be worth the current price tag? It's a yes or no question. And if I choose to pre-order MUA2 for the Juggernaut code and my friend doesn't have an HDD to download the stupid update, then I move the Juggernaut DLC to a memory card and play with my friend!
That, or just skip the game entirely. I've missed out on some great games using this method (Trine, Gears of War, Beatles Rock Band, etc)...but I also don't feel the pressure when it comes to pre-ordering for in-game bonuses.

Jim, yes they are. If you want to use Juggernaut in this game you absolutely MUST preorder the game. That sounds like they are forcing you to me.

Sure, anyone can take it completely literally and just say, "I'm not being forced because I don't want Juggernaut" and while that may be true it's missing the point entirely. Anyone wanting to use this character is strong armed into a pre order.

--- Replying to Tino -----
So pre-order it, then.

Do you want to use Juggernaut for $60...or every other great aspect of the game for the used price of $40 six months later?

Did you know that Blade, Psylocke, and Cyclops are only available on the PSP/PS2/Wii versions?
Did you know that She-Hulk and Sentry are only available on the Nintendo DS version?

There are 30 playable characters available to all systems, all customers. It's so weird that this frustration comes from just one.
And let's not start on JG's mention of the exclusive weapons pack in a game that will feature 60,000+ weapons (Borderlands)...

Dragon Age: Origins

*Item: Band of Fire is available when game is ordered from the USA's EA Store.
*Item: Memory Band is available when the game is pre-ordered from all retailers.
*Item: Dalish Promise Ring only available when the game is pre-ordered from specific retailers.
*Item: Guildmasters Belt only available when the game is pre-ordered from specific retailers.
*Item: Feral Wolf Charm only available when the game is pre-ordered from specific retailers.
*Item: Bergen%u2019s Honor is only available with the Collector's Edition.
*Item: Grimoire of the Frozen Wastes is only available with the Collector's Edition.
*Item: Final Reason is only available with the Collector's Edition.
*Item: Blood Dragon Armor is available at launch for any new copy of the game for PC, XBox 360, and PS3, this DLC adds a suit of armor that can be used in Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age.
*DLC: The Stone Prisoner is available at launch for any new copy of the game for PC, XBox 360, and PS3, this DLC adds the companion Shale to the game. For players who purchase a used copy, it can be bought separately.
*DLC: The Warden's Keep is available at launch for the direct download version Collector's Edition, it includes a new location on your world map, at least one new quest, two new achievements, and, possibly a player character owned or player-managed stronghold.

Just thought people may be amused by the confusingly large amount of DLC coming with Bioware's Dragon Age.

--- Replying to ShadokatRegn -----

it was also in battlefield bad company before GOW2, in BBC you could only get a certain gun with a pre order code from gamestop, and without it you missed out on an achievement, the gun was also pretty good in game from what I heard.

--- Replying to txshurricane -----

But they ARE forcing you to do things by using these programs, and it's getting worse. It's not that they are making items available as bonuses for those that preorder, it's that they AREN'T making another means to obtain them for those that don't. And just like we saw with Juggernaut, then the person that didn't preorder may have to bend over backwards just to enjoy the game with their friend.

The fall season is bad enough with gaming in terms of the sheer number of games to purchase, nobody can afford to get all the games they would like to get, and now if they don't preorder they can't get everything with the game they want as well.

It is a business, and it's a very poor business decision to not give your customers options.

--- Replying to bapenguin -----

Exactly. Giving items for 'free' when pre-ordering a game, and charging for them later on makes the most business sense to me.

@kersplat

I know what you mean...I've got bills galore to pay, so there's no possible way in hell I'll be able to afford every exclusive brand-new, nor would I want to at this stage of my life. There are things outside of gaming I'd like to do as well, things that also cost money...so when it comes down to it, I end up purchasing a lot of my games from half.com just to get the experience without going broke.

I dont like the preorder exclusives. Take Juggernaut for example , he should have been a limited exclusive where if you preorder you get him right off the bat, but say a week down the road other people can get him from the marketplace for say 50ms points or such.

Now stuff that doesnt make a different such as a different color hairdo or what not I am fine with because it doesnt change the game dynamic, but when you start screwing that up the exclusive nonsense needs to go out the window.

--- Replying to txshurricane -----

That just makes me laugh. I don't mind exclusive content. I just think it should be made available with all "new" copies instead of pre-orders. As I said, I can't afford to drop X amount of $'s on 6 preorders in the next 2 months. What I can live with is when the "exclusive" content gets unlocked or made available (price tag or not) at some point in the future.

Btw, according to Randy Pitchford, the last weapons count for Borderlands put it at over 17,500,000. Therefore, an extra 30-50 guns in the "Mercenary gun pack" is absolutely nothing. The entire Gearbox team has been playing it for at LEAST 3 years and they still haven't seen every permutation.

--- Replying to kersplat12785 -----

That's why I called the Merc Gun Pack a "visual" thing. 30-50 guns in a 17,500,000+ game is like a water drop in a bucket. The guns are there to help you start out. Past level 5, I'd wager, most people are probably going to find something better. And at level 50, who's even going to remember that "Oh man, he had a Gamestop gun."? For PvP at level 1 (That'd be kinda boring, though), yeah, it may give an advantage, but let's be fair -- I could have a more powerful gun. . . But if I can't aim worth a damn while my friend can score a few head-shots and mostly body-shots, I don't think it matters much in the end if my gun does maybe 20 more damage or something.

--- Replying to txshurricane -----

Jim, while I agree that voting with your wallet is always the strongest measure, we certainly should complain to the retailer, the publisher, the developers and our fellow gamers. Things don't get changed by silently taking this crap. Let your local GS manager know that you're not buying MUA2 because of the pre-order fiasco. Email both the pubs and devs expressing your displeasure with these business practices. Tell them that their decisions regarding preorder bonuses are tainting your perception of their company and their products. And by all means complain to your fellow gamers about it, that way we we know that we aren't just isolated curmudgeons, that this is an issue we share with many of our fellows.

--- Replying to Deriaz -----

The fact of the matter is, I care cause I'm curious what it is. Also it is not 30-50 guns. It is just 8 weapons. Besides the aim of the game isn't to get every possible gun, cause that isn't happening.

Besides even if you take one character and level them up to 50 and keep playing it for 3 years. You won't find a lot. Randy said that for every level about 2,000 weapons are generated to match that player's progression. So 2,000 times 50 is no where near "17,500,00+" guns. And who cares about the number of weapons after 10?

@Jims comment about Sgt. Johnson,

The only reason I didn't get Sgt. Johnson (by going the Toys R Us route) is because the employee at Gamestop outright lied to me when I pre-ordered, so I canceled it. Every time I play Firefight mode and see a Sgt. Johnson, I feel a slight pang of jealousy for not having the same content in my $60 game.

I do <3 the gift card and ODST figure from Toys R Us, but it doesn't make up for the fact that I have an incomplete game.

As much as I hate the sense of obvious entitlement here in the thread. It IS a piss poor business decision not to sell the bonus features after a certain amount of time.

Unless the retailer has you locked in via contract, you already have everything needed and just need to produce more codes..so sell the damn feature and turn a steady profit on it. Plus then you'll profit a bit from used game purchases. More money for game companies = More / (Hopefully better) games.

--- Replying to Mrxknown_JG -----

So are many other people.

ome a "visual DLC".

--- Replying to Jackel -----

I'm not sure what thread you're reading, but I don't see a general sense of entitlement in here. Most people aren't demanding that all this content be free on release day for everyone, only that the complete game (particularly game altering content such as unique characters/items/levels) be available in some form after the pre-order period is up, even if they have to wait a month to pay for it. That's not entitlement, that's a pretty reasonable request from a user base.

And I don't see how criticizing companies for poor business decisions counts as entitlement either.

--- Replying to roland -----

Entitlement: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

When you buy the game, you get what comes with it. Not what is promised to come later...but what comes on that disc. You bought that game for what it is

Wanting anything more than that (like being able to buy your way into something that was designed to reward pre-orders) is a sense of entitlement. A feeling that the developers "owe" you something.

If you really feel like you are getting screwed out of content, then buy the game used at a lower price or don't buy it at all. Show the publishers how you feel with your money.

--- Replying to ShadokatRegn -----
This is how I feel about it.